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Honing the New Edge, Part 3
Still Honing That Edge, part 3
In my previous posts I strove to define sword-and-sorcery and to argue for its importance. Now I want to revisit some of the conversations I had with Bill King and John Hocking and Clint Werner and Martin Zornhau, among others, and look at what we need from sword-and-sorcery today – and what many are already striving to do.
When Tolkien and Robert E. Howard crafted what they wrote their worlds were fresh and new. They never set out to create unbreakable molds from which all fantasy had to be cast. Tolkien did not mean to suggest that all fantasy had to be quests with bands of elves and dwarves in a vaguely European world marching off to fight an all-powerful baddie by destroying a magic whatsit. Likewise, it should be understood that sword and sorcery is not limited to a barbarian with a sword, despite Conan's prominence as the first sword and sorcery hero (well, Kull was actually the first, but I’m trying not to get over technical). Bill King wrote that: "One of the main problems with High Fantasy is that it has become a sort of post-Tolkien monocrop where a good deal reads and looks the same. The thing about the writers I grew up reading is that every one of them read differently and wrote about different types of worlds. Hyboria was very different from Zothique which was very different from Carter's Lemuria and so on."
But on to the guidelines I’d like to see in play for putting a new edge on an old blade.
1. We can find inspiration from the pulps without pastiching them. Specifically I mean setting aside the sexism and racism and the suspect politics, but embracing the virtues of great pulp storytelling: The color. The pace. The headlong thrill and sense of wonder. The celebration not of the everyday and the petty, but of those who dare to fight on when the odds are against them.
2. We can create new characters. Not homages. And not ironic sendups. I would prefer to go a long time without seeing any more “comedy sword-and-sorcery.”
3. We can craft exotic settings and/or settings that live - as in NOT faux Tolkien of faux Howard. We need to make our own worlds and look past the groundbreaking ideas that have now become limiting barriers set in place by Tolkien’s imitators and bookshelves stuffed with gaming manuals.
4. We must restore the sense of fantastic. Once magic is banal or easy, once magic rings can be found at the corner market and wizards are everywhere, sense of wonder all-too-easily goes straight out the window. It may be possible to write good fantasy in such an environment, but it would be very challenging to craft good sword-and-sorcery there.
5. We can check the irony at the door. Sure, humor and irony can be found in the world our characters walk, but we don’t need to write, as Martin Zornhau says, with “amused detatchment to revel in swordfights.” We should either embrace the genre or not, but we shouldn’t pretend to do so then try to excuse it to our literary friends by claiming it’s all just a joke and is really beneath us. Pfah.
Sword-and-sorcery can be hard to defend when we are constantly offered up poor or diluted gruel substituted for the real thing, or treacly imitation. But then we, and others, should remember the now famous Theodore Sturgeon’s Law. Whether or not 90% of all fiction is truly crap, or if 85 or 97 percent of it is crap might be endlessly debated, and one might as well argue over the number of angels on the head of a pin. The pin head is pointless, just like the debate. We should judge the genre by its best works, just as a wise critic knows to judge the contributions of an author by his or her best works, not the worst.
Now rather than going on and continuing to hone the language, I'm taking this public. I want to hear what you think of the points. What more needs to be said? What needs to be clarified?
As for what we can do to help sword-and-sorcery today? Well, one of the things we can do is support those few markets we have... and I'll post about that very soon.
Hope to hear from you.
Part 1
Part 2
Sword-and-Sorcery Suggested Reading
Howard
100K S&S novel
Re: 100K S&S novel
Re: 100K S&S novel
I thought Druss was an S&S character thrown into an epic plotline.
Re: 100K S&S novel
Of course, Kings Conan and Kull have that issue, too, or Thongor.
Re: 100K S&S novel
Even when he has an army, Conan, e.g., doesn't really wrestle with the problems of command etc like Sharpe or Honor Harrington.
Re: 100K S&S novel
Re: 100K S&S novel
How's your elephant?
Re: 100K S&S novel
Did you do this on purpose? ;-)
I wouls suggest one question every high fantasy writer should ask him/herself - does this seem familiar? If yes is the answer, then perhaps your worldbuilding goes a bit deeper than just the familiarity of writing the story. Perhaps you are designing your take, and too closely, of a place you lost yourself in once, as another took you off to a barbaric, adventursome realm...
I wrote a story recently that bogged down for a couple months because it seemed too - familiar. I've been too well read growing up and have too good a memory for me not to worry about that.
(Anonymous)
I would think most (and I know thinking is my first step toward putting my foot in my mouth) writers do try to put the fantastic in their fiction. But with a well-read audience, and such a vast body of existing literature, even the most harrowing of magics or elusive of rings can easily be dismissed as something "seen before." Are you suggesting that in the current climate magic has become banal and rings ever-present, that it is a general condition within the genre, or that this occurs at the level of individual stories? Can you clarify?
I certainly agree about supporting those few markets that currently exist. It would seem that one hope for moving S&S forward would be to increase the fan base and bring in fresh readers and, very important, fresh writers. The existing long wait times coupled with those few slots available can be pretty discouraging for all, I think.
My problems in general with modern fantasy short stories are that A. it's too ironic. B. There's almost no adventure in short fiction markets. C. It's really cute and magic is too easy. D. It's an exercise in literary experimentation but not a story.
I see a lot of C in my sub pile, and in magazines that I've stopped reading, which is also where I see A and D.
Does that answer your question? Or did I muddle it?
(Anonymous)
Thank you. --Jason T (forgot to sign previous. Apologies.)
Increasing the fan base, yes. Getting all the people who like it together to support it, all the people who write it and want a market to support it, that would really be something.
Long wait times for responses drive me nuts, too. The problem for me here at Black Gate is that this isn't my day job. I don't get paid very much to do this, and there's lot of other things I could be doing instead. More of my own writing; heck, playing ball with my kids. If there was enough support, enough steady subscriptions instead of submissions, then maybe I could make THIS my day job and turn out response letters at the end of every week. If more people subscribed, there'd be more money to buy stories, then it would come out faster, there'd be more slots available... well, you see.
What happens instead is we get deluged with material. Much of it comes from folks who have never purchased the mag or even read the thing. I see it time and again; people are always dying to send us their writing. Are they dying to spread the word about us and support the mag? No, not so much. That's the reality, and I try to accustom myself to it, but it wears me down. I wish I could wave a wand and make it better; I do my best to spread word and try to generate interest, but I'm not sure how much harder I can work at it.
Howard
Evidently the customer base for this is huge, and will keep growing the better the interfaces become and the more materials are on offer. Kindle's been far more successful too, than so many predicted.
Here's the article in Publisher's Weekly.
Love, C.
(Anonymous)
First, I don't support markets. I buy stories I want to read. That's one of the reasons I like Black Gate--most of the stories inside are solid work.
I think it's poison to tell people they should support markets for their writing. You might as well tell them to eat lots of fiber and hit the gym on their lunch hour--maybe it's the best thing way they could solve a particular problem, but you'll get more response by making it sound appealing. IMO.
... groundbreaking ideas that have now become limiting barriers set in place by Tolkien’s imitators ...
Is Tolkien imitation really that big a problem? I know you're reading slush, so maybe you see a ton of dwarf/elf/Dark Lord of the East type stuff, but I really don't see those sorts of books any more.
About 15 years ago, the Tolkien clones fell back out of the limelight and a new formula came to the front of the stage. It featured young, female protagonists who had a special "Gift" inside them, who were cast out of their place in society and teamed up with a telepathic animal.
These were popular books for a lot of years--the market was full of them. A couple years ago, their popularity receded and we're now seeing a lot of paranormal romance with a contemporary setting.
And yet, I still see people complain about Tolkien imitators.
Now, I'm the first to admit that I'm not as up on the genre as other readers are. I'm not one of those book-a-day people, and I read in several genres. But I don't see Tolkienism as a current problem, only a current complaint (and to be clear, not just from you. I read about this elsewhere, too).
I'm happy to be corrected, though.
It's perfectly reasonable to like a mag because you like the stories in it. I mean, that's kind of the whole point. But I'm adressing mostly a writer crowd here with this stuff. And writers aren't rich. If they're really into heroic adventure fiction, why not rally 'round the flag? What I find frustrating is the people that decry the lack of sword-and-sorcery and markets for it and then send us things without checking out the mag or supporting it. It's something I have to deal with, and probably need to just get over.
Tolkien clones -- yes. Yes, I drown in Tolkien clones. Nay, not even Tolkien clones, but game fiction cloned from clones of Tolkien. So, yes, and double-yes, it's a point that must be made. So far I don't drown in too many paranormal romances. Thank God. Or thank Crom, but then he mostly hands down dooms, if memory serves.
But the best exercise, like the best reading, is the stuff you enjoy doing. /gets off soapbox.
As for the Tolkien clones issue, I will accept your correction with the most manly stoicism I can manage. Now that I've finished stamping my feet and whining, I'll go mope in the corner.
I'm glad most of it is consigned to the slush. Better you than me. I can't stand the stuff--except when I absolutely have to have it.
There was a point a couple summers ago when I wanted nothing more than a good Conan-esque story--which doesn't mean the man himself, but a character who responded to difficulty with decisive action, who spoke boldly and with courage, and who knew how to stab people who needed stabbing.
Unfortunately for me, the book I was holding in my hands was A Shadow in Summer, which had insecure protagonists, secret courtly betrayals, and a culture where rigidly defined body language is a part of everyday conversation.
::Assumes stance of restless dissatisfaction::
I guess I was the wrong reader for this book. After 100+ pages of reading, and the not-very-elaborate court betrayal still hadn't happened, I picked up Kurt Busiek's Conan comics in trade. I'm not normally a fan of Conan comics, but I had to have it.
Anyway, I'm writing this comment in between calls and it's getting a little disjointed, so I'll stop there.
I've said before that most pure sword & sorcery has some element of horror to it, and the two writers who've impressed me the most in my recent S&S reading are both better know as writers of horror, Ramsey Campbell and Manly Wade Wellman.
Anyway, you've given me food for thought and perhaps my next try at S&S won't be quite as Howardian in approach.
Charles R. Rutledge
How are things doing?
We might amend guideline 4 to include that magic comes at a cost and that sorcery is rarely practiced by the good guys in S&S. In fact the genre was often known as 'swordplay versus sorcery' in the old days. Magic was generally presented as something dark and dangerous in S&S. No Gandalf types.
Similarly monsters were monsters. Not some normal life form that inhabited the hero's world as say orcs or goblins do Middle Earth, but an aberration to the natural order. The heroes response to a gibbering Lovecraftian horror shouldn't be, "Oh well, another monster to slay," But rather, "Jeez, what is that thing?" Much like magic, monsters shouldn't be treated as commonplace. Even Conan was frozen with horror or revulsion at times. (Hmmm, I should write a longer essay about this.)
Things go well. I was a little out of the loop for a while there, but my interest in S&S has definitely swung back around lately, so I've been reading a lot of it and doing a lot of thinking about the origins and growth of the genre. Glad to see lots of folks here doing the same.
In books some of the most promsing things I've seen in recent years are actually from the Warhammer universe. Three writers, Bill King, C.L. Werner, and Nathan Long, have impressed me in various ways. Scott Oden's historical fiction (Memnon, Men of Bronze)is a great fit save that, of course, the supernatural isn't involved. Some people I really respect are gaga over Steven Erikson, who I haven't investigated in depth yet enough myself to comment upon. There are probably a few others I'll think of as soon as I sign off.
I'll try to draft up a list of short fiction heroic fiction writers in the next few days.
Howard
Here's a few I have come across :-
New Sword and Sorcery
The Red Priest - Dirk Flinthart
Vertir and Kulkan - Charles Coleman Finlay
Allandros and Balor - Ben Peek
standalones
Monkey See - P. E. Cunningham
Siege of Cranes - Benjamin Rosenbaum
James Enge's Morlock stories are going to leave a mark on the field. He's just signed a two-book deal with Pyr featuring the hunchback wizard. Martha Wells' wizard hunters were already popular before they joined Black Gate, and brought in new readers. Judith Berman and Harry Connolly write it for us, though I woulnd't quite call their work series stories. One of Judith's stories for Black Gate was nominated for a Nebula. There's Iaian Rowan, who writes a fine series for us about a Chinese exorcist. Speaking of Chinese exorcists, Brian Dolton's work really impresses me. He's writing of a different sort of Chinese exorcist -- a real one, as opposed to Rowan's clever impostor, and has appeared in multiple venues. Soon he'll be in Black Gate. So too will S.C. Bryce and a number of other promising writers. One of my favorites from my six issue tenure at Flashing Swords e-zine was John Hocking, who has a series Black Gate will be showcasing staring with issue 13. I could go on... there's a lot of talented writers out there and not enough magazines wanting to print their work.
bluetyson here introduced me to Dirk Flinthart's work, which really impressed me. There's also Chris Willrich, whose fiction sounds the way I wish mine did. He, too, will have an upcoming story in Black Gate, and has had four stories of Persimmon Gaunt and Imago Bone published in the mag of Fantasy and Science Fiction.
My post's gone on too long already. I haven't mentioned a number of good writers who have appeared once in BG, or a number of others from Flashing Swords...
And I'm probably forgetting some others whose work I really like, but, as I said, this note's too long already and at this point, to those unfamiliar with the writers, it's not much more than a list of names.
Every one of your points is necessary to pursuing that 'new edge' you seek. I agree with and like that terminology so much, I've borrowed and adapted the concept at Rogue Blades Entertainmentit.
RBE is taking it one step further, however. We're also taking that step harder, faster, and more emphatically by emphasizing an Xtreme Edge with our soon-to-be unleashed house character Kaimer. I'm confident we have guidelines #2, 3, and 5 licked, and the goal is to consistently deliver points 1 and 4 - but the readers will have to be the judges of that.
As for supporting markets? Well, by our monetary choices we support what we like. The almighty greenback casts a pretty hefty vote, one that speaks louder than any soapbox at any rate.
(Anonymous)
One thing I noticed in regards to the fantasy that lurked in the slush pile was how flimsy it was. It WAS bad RPG fiction, as you'd mentioned. It lacked any sense of its antecedents; I'd go so far as to swear those who had submitted it had never cracked open the Iliad, much less REH, Tolkien, et. al. The worst part, for me, was rejecting writers who were good craftspeople but who nevertheless lacked the most basic understanding of how to tell a story.
IMHO, the best S&S, and the best fantasy in general, comes from writers who understand both the history of their genre and the history of the real world. Before they were writers, Tolkien and Howard were historians -- one rigorously educated, the other less so but spurred on by a deep-seated passion. It's not enough for those who follow in their footsteps to mimic Middle-earth or the Hyborian Age; they have to dig up the roots and examine them -- the prose and poetry of antiquity, the histories of the Greeks and Romans, the memoirs of those who were eyewitness to history. Couple that with a fecund imagination and good things will be born.
Sorry for usurping the soap-box, but I've been following these threads with great interest. Well done, Howard!
--Scott Oden
Please drop in any time you like and share your thoughts. I thought this was highly quotable: "It's not enough for those who follow in their footsteps to mimic Middle-earth or the Hyborian Age; they have to dig up the roots and examine them -- the prose and poetry of antiquity, the histories of the Greeks and Romans, the memoirs of those who were eyewitness to history. Couple that with a fecund imagination and good things will be born."
I even found my story of the Shadowslayer starting with a dark S&S appeal, and gradually falling into an epic tale. I want to go back and strip down some of the already limited magic, and make things darker than they already are.
How does one keep the edge sharp without falling into the epic abyss? By Crom I wish I had an answer to that.